it turns out the biggest recipients is religion and religious organization. i myself give as much as i can. we built a catholic church, for heaven's sake in connecticut. it's pretty rare these days to build churches, most people are tearing them down. my point is people bhor giving to religious operations are not doing it because of the charitable deduction. they are doing it from the heart. >> well, you've got to understand, the point that was -- those organization are -- let's be clear about where this money goes. it goes through organizations who serve vulnerable peeble. we have 46 million people in poverty, a number of people struggling, why does is it ever make sense to reduce the incentive to help those individuals? >> i want to help them. that's not the issue. the issue is how to help. i think what lenny is saying, if you have an economy that is prospering and growing and creating wealth, then the people who have more resources to pony up for all these very, very good -- >> but larry, we don't have that economy. >> it isn't about -- i understand that,